A Case Against Faith

I couldn't agree more.
Try debating with someone who has faith. It’s the equivalent of a child putting his hands over his ears and shouting loudly that he can’t hear you until you give up and walk away.
Try debating with someone who has faith. As soon as you make a logical case, their argument suddenly doesn’t need any evidence behind it – because your opponent has faith. They are unassailable and completely immune to anything you say, no matter how much sense it makes – a sign of a poor argument to any logician – because they have faith. And your meagre logic can’t begin to approach faith.
It is truly astonishing and indeed dumbfounding to me how one can reject logic as superfluous, just like it completely dumbfounds me how one can simply skip the process of justifying a belief and replace it with faith. Consider for a minute what faith means: it means belief without evidence. Belief without evidence. The absurdity of such a statement is dwarfed only be the fact that it is accepted.
It is important to note that faith is only invoked in religious contexts. Faith is hardly consulted when deciding whether to bet one’s life savings on a horse that has a million to one chance of winning a race. In this case, feeble logic is good enough. Let’s assume that you want to fly and have built wings to achieve this. You have done all the calculations and you are pretty sure that the wings are incapable of supporting your weight and you would fall crashing to the ground. Do you decide to do something logical like improve your wings or abandon your quest, or do you shrug your shoulders, invoke faith, and take a plunge? The answer is obvious; but when asked to justify a belief in God, suddenly, this logic that has already saved you your life’s savings and your life becomes redundant; and instead faith, the invincible trump card of theism, kicks in, as soon as there is nothing at stake. This is inconsistent and incoherent, and does not encourage open-minded debate.
Speaking of debate, here is an extract[1] from a Christian apologetics site:
Matt: I believe God exists. I have faith that he exists.
Atheist: Proof?
Matt: I have none.
Yet Matt, the apologist, still believes in God. Admittedly he does go on to say that there is evidence, but not 100% coherent evidence – and then he says what I object so vividly to: although the evidence is incomplete, faith will allow him to go from the insufficient premises to the conclusion. What kind of debating is this? A debate in which logic is eliminated is not a debate. As soon as your opponent in a debate needs faith to compensate for their lack of evidence with faith, then you have won the argument: for no argument can be won by the use of anything but knowledge. A debate involving just faith and no logic would look a bit like this:
A: “x is true; y is untrue.”
B: “You’re wrong: y is true; x is untrue.”
A: “Prove it.”
B: “I don’t need to. You prove it.”
A: “I don’t need to.”
At this point, A and B get their clubs out and start beating each other over the head, because they couldn’t resolve their differences with anything but violence – which is exactly what has been happening, and still is, for a few millennia. Because no debate is possible, the only way of convincing the other is by beating him over the head with your club. It is this dogma over who has the best imaginary friend – with neither A nor B realizing that none of these friends exist – which has brought us the crusades, the protestant and catholic conflict in England during the 1600s, which continues even today in Northern Ireland, suicide bombings on London transport, the gunpowder plot, the witch hunts, the inquisition, the Indian partition, the Israeli-Palestinian wars, the Serb-Croat Muslim massacres and honour killings. Those who recognize that coherent logic must justify belief do not do this. Those who are receptive to logic and have an open mind don’t fly airplanes into buildings. That’s what the guy whose faith says that 72 virgins are waiting for him does.
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Faith’s longevity in existence is explained by its integral role in the functionality of religion; it is the sputtering and coughing engine behind religion. A religion which embodies faith within it is not obliged to justify anything, and they can therefore keep their followers. And if this isn’t brainwashing enough, consider how much it has been beaten into people’s heads for centuries from all angles and directions – and they go one step further. If their followers even dare to question the religion, even in their thoughts, they risk conviction of thought-crime from their allegedly omnibenevolent God and they are denied entrance to heaven: “whosoever believeth in [Christ] should not perish, but have everlasting life”[2];which inversely means that doubting Christ means not entering heaven. The combination of propaganda and fear tactics is a powerful cocktail – just look at how effective it is: people are still putting their hands over their ears and shouting loudly that they can’t hear you when you challenge them to come out of their comfort zone.
I present a challenge to all Christians: renounce your faith, step out of this comfort zone of yours, lay down your shield, even temporarily, and focus instead on questioning everything to see what is logical. Only believe what can be proved with complete and coherent evidence. If you really stick to the challenge, and if you really do question everything you hear and read, I can almost guarantee you, will come to realize that most of the stuff that you hear in church and what people talk about is not reasonable. I sense the skeptical accusations of a hidden atheist agenda here – which is good, because already you question everything, so I will bid you take into consideration that I do accept that there are a few – not many, but a few – lucid arguments for the existence of God, or at least some points that atheism cannot adequately explain; and even if you choose to stand behind one of these to defend and retain your former faith, I am content: for in doing so, you have relinquished this childish notion of belief without evidence or logic, and now follow the evidence wherever you interpret it leading.
Ponder this challenge of mine, and you will find that the only case in which you will reject my challenge is if you truly doubt and insist on clinging to your religion – if you are certain that you are correct, you will not mind challenging your belief; however if you are uncertain but genuinely want to believe you are correct, you will fear that you might be wrong, and will have nowhere to go. I hope that, no matter where you stand, you will accept, for if you can truly remove all bias from your mind and follow the logic where it goes, you will realize that you are not going into a barren place with no joy; in fact, quite the contrary. You will find how truly rejuvenating and indeed enlightening it is to acknowledge the fact that evidence, logic and reason is the only thing that can justify a belief.
I have in this article done all I can to prove why faith should be abandoned. You have a choice, reader with faith, as you finish this article: you can either accept my challenge and question what you must not question, to force it to conform to the logic by which everything else abides, and to see if it truly does work as it is claimed without having to lean on that invisible crutch that is faith. The alternative is to maintain the mental metaphorical position you are currently in: hands over your ears, shouting loudly that you can’t hear me, until I give up and walk away, leaving you to perpetuate your blind belief in your delusion.
[1] An Atheist Says He Knows There Is No God — Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry [2] John 3:16
Bravo. I couldn’t have expressed my frustration over the “Faithful” better myself. Well written!
Slingword.
awesome article :)
Well said & well written ;]
Very well written article I enjoyed reading every bit of it :)
Some good points were expressed, but I would like to point out that no logic can prove or deny the existence of a god.
AjaX – my case is against faith, not God, as I did say: “I do accept that there are a few … lucid arguments for the existence of God … and even if you choose to stand behind one of these to defend and retain your former faith, I am content”.
That was waaay more epic than the bible.
Though of course one could easily turn it around and propose that Atheists step out of the comfort zone of hard evidence and simply trust on “faith”
(I also think you could have cited the Bible directly instead of through an online version)
No, you could not turn it around in that way. Logic and faith are not equivalents and you get to choose which one you think suits you best; the fact of the matter is, a belief without logic is an unjustified one, and should therefore be released. To say anything to the contrary is absurd and inconsistent, as I have pointed out, as you still use logic in every other situation.
And by the way, I don’t have a Bible; I don’t like science fiction. Pardon that; I just couldn’t resist.
Very nice Euphorix. I’m writing a paper at the moment on abortion. I’m going to debate over it at school with a religious fanatic… This will no doubt be all the argument I need to justify her reasoning, as it will only be “God says its wrong.” As pathetic as that is, It will still be fun to mentally run her and her little religion over with undeniable proof and logic.
Thanks for posting this Euphorix, and well done :)
Nice Article, Enjoyed it.
Oh, I should have added that I have a take on faith also.
http://slingword.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/faith-with-a-capital-f/
(A slightly different approach than your excellent one)
Slingword
I’m not offended in any way.
I merely post here because I find contrary opinion always helps improve one’s argument
(and a Devil’s Advocate is always a good role to play in sharpening one’s skill in debate)
It’s good to hear that you are not offended; many Christians are very quick to take offense. Personally, I do quite strongly dislike smug, self-satisfied atheists who are ironically so full of themselves and their alleged logical abilities that they are just as bad as the religious whom they criticise at recognising counterarguments. I thought my joke at the end was indicative of such a stance.
By the way, it is interesting to note the Catholic church have actually gotten rid of their advocatus diaboli, so more saints could be beatified.
So are you actually a Christian, or have you been the advocatus diaboli all along?
The Catholic church is ridiculous.
I believe most Christians see too many rules when they read the Bible, and miss the message behind it.
To me, the whole point of the Bible is telling people to love one another, and pretty much to stop being dicks to people. Christians have warped this so much so that they now are dicks to everyone that doesn’t agree EXACTLY how they do, including Christians from other denominations, and act this way in the name of God.
sigh…. I like the artical… Its well thought out and kind of true which is sad….
Great read,
Euphorix, your article provides a strong argument against faith. If we all accepted that faith, as sole justification for a belief, is not tenable, then I think that religion would be exposed for what it is: a man-made explanation for that which was not understood. It is becoming less and less relevant as science continues to explain more of the natural world. (For example, I was discussing belief in God with someone from Kansas and he cited the Big Bang as evidence for God’s existence – i.e. the idea that everything came from nothing. I have faith that, in time, it will be explained by science.)
On the other hand, I have put on hold a book at the library which purports to demonstrate God’s existence through quantum physics. It should be very interesting to read.
—
With faith out of the way, supporters of religion inevitably turn to its moral teachings (as Anon did in citing the Bible). I will, however, leave that discussion for another day.
~NuclearBoBo
P.S. As for the 72 virgins waiting in heaven for martyrs, some have proposed that many words in the Koran are Syrianic-Aramaic and not Arabic, and thus sweet white raisins are the reward for martyrdom, not virgins. :P
And another joins in.
Bobo, you should try to be a regular here
And Euphorix:
I’m neither of the two, just looking for truth in a world where everyone seems to have their own agenda. Looking for reality in a place where everyone invents their own and contests with everyone else to get you to subscribe to their version. I give all an equal chance, and have heard compelling arguments from all sides. I merely oppose yours in order to see your rebuttal to a potential counter-argument.
BoBo, the argument that guy from Kansas cited is one of the reasons I am agnostic and not atheist. It is true that science will probably be able to explain it, but such explanation does not exist, and if one is to follow logic, one must therefore simply admit that the God explanation is the only sufficient one.
Some do believe that God can be proven with evidence, deists, and if I were religion, I would definitely be a deist.
I sure didn’t know that about the raisin/virgin thing. It’s similar to the number of the beast, and how it was mistranslated into 666, when it’s actually 696.
Anon -
You seem to be an agnostic? Or at least truly neutral and undecided. Regardless, you seem to follow the logic wherever it goes, a stance that I agree with.
“[I]f one is to follow logic, one must therefore simply admit that the God explanation is the only sufficient one.”
It may be the only sufficient explanation, but there simply is no evidence that points to any conclusion at the moment (at least that we can see), therefore we cannot leap to the conclusion that God created the universe. An equally sufficient explanation is that the universe has a cycle of expanding and contracting and our current universe was born when the previous universe had contracted. That is pure speculation, however, as is the God theory.
Euphorix – I never would have guessed you were an agnostic. (Although, I am an agnostic in the strict sense that I believe that we can never truly know whether or not a god – or several – exists.)
Well written Euphorix, I enjoyed reading it.
Write a book right now.
Style – impeccable, perfectly abusive yet filled with reasoning
Content – every point made with solid evidence with abuse to make it entertaining
I was entertained throughout and left educated in the flaws of faith. 10/10
“Yet Matt, the apologist, still believes in God. Admittedly he does go on to say that there is evidence, but not 100% coherent evidence – and then he says what I object so vividly to: although the evidence is incomplete, faith will allow him to go from the insufficient premises to the conclusion. What kind of debating is this?”
Why do you want to debate? Just accept that someone else doesn’t believe the same thing that you do and move on. If they are being deluded or whatever, how does that affect you? You might complain that Christians and other religious people force their beliefs on you, but you are doing the exact same thing.
In response to Rob -
This is a really stupid point by someone who has no real arguments. Like with faith, this is just sticking your hands over your ears and shouting “I HAVE A RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT I WANT”.
The response to this rather ignorant question is in the article itself, if you bothered to read beyond the bit you quoted. I listed approximately a dozen of reasons why I should care about what other people believe: mainly, because their lives overlap with mine.
“… the crusades, the protestant and catholic conflict in England during the 1600s, which continues even today in Northern Ireland, suicide bombings on London transport, the gunpowder plot, the witch hunts, the inquisition, the Indian partition, the Israeli-Palestinian wars, the Serb-Croat Muslim massacres and honour killings. Those who recognize that coherent logic must justify belief do not do this. Those who are receptive to logic and have an open mind don’t fly airplanes into buildings. That’s what the guy whose faith says that 72 virgins are waiting for him does.”
that’s awesome
Yea i totally agree with Habbstar on this !
yea im with you on this one!